The following is the transcript of an interview with Rep. Mike Turner on “Face the Nation with Margaret Brennan” that aired on Jan. 26, 2025.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We turn now to Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner. Good morning. Good to have you here.
REP. MIKE TURNER: Good morning. Thanks for having me.
MARGARET BRENNAN: A lot to get to with you. I want to ask you about this breaking news that President Trump fired 15 inspectors general. Those are the federal watchdogs who monitor for waste, fraud and abuse. He didn’t give 30 days’ notice, as legally required. Does this concern you that these agencies can’t police themselves?
REP. MIKE TURNER: Well, this is very common that there’s turnover when a new president comes in to do a review of what’s happening within these agencies and in the IGs. I think there’ll be a review as they put these individuals back, and some of the individuals will be replaced, obviously. But you know, clearly they need to bring in their own team now. They need to look at what the performance is for these individuals. And it’s very common as new administrations come in that specifically these positions be replaced.
MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you’re not concerned these are just going to be loyalists?
REP. TURNER: Well, every administration replaces them, so in the- in the end, they tend to be, I mean, what I have seen, and I think what we have seen throughout the- all administrations of these tend to be incredibly professional individuals that really are great watchdogs. And I think we’ll see that from this administration.
MARGARET BRENNAN: What should happen now that the CIA has released this low-confidence assessment that it was most likely a lab leak, a research experiment versus naturally occurring virus that resulted in the COVID pandemic?
REP. TURNER: The Biden administration really has been an impediment to getting to the answer here. Congress passed–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –This is their finding–
REP. TURNER: –Right, but Congress passed, and the Biden administration signed an order declassifying the information concerning the lab leak theory and the issues with respect to COVID origins. And the administration still refused to release it. I think this is a great start, and really it’s been unfortunate that the administration has been slow. This is a good turning point, because clearly this was not of natural origins.
MARGARET BRENNAN: We have more to talk about on the China front, on the other side of this break. So, stay with us, and we hope all of you will as well. We’ll be right back.
[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome back to Face the Nation. We return to our conversation now with Ohio Republican Congressman Mike Turner. Just to pick up on the topic of- of China, we’ve been talking about TikTok. The law stated that January 19, and the Supreme Court upheld this, that the owner ByteDance would have to sell TikTok to an American owner. Inauguration day, January 20, the CEO of Tiktok, whose company is deemed a national security threat under US law, was seated next to Tulsi Gabbard, the pick to run the intelligence community. Despite this national security law. You can see the picture of them right there, and Mr. Trump seems to have given them a reprieve. The editorial board of the Wall Street Journal said “Mr. Trump’s Tiktok order shows a Biden-like disdain for limits on his power.” What do you make of this decision not to implement the law for at least a period of time?
REP. TURNER: Well, let’s be clear. TikTok is absolutely a national security threat. The law passed by Congress that came out of the House China Select Committee, that was chaired by Mike Gallagher, that drafted this law, found that TikTok was a national security risk because of two things, its access to data and its ability to use itself as a propaganda tool by China itself and the laws in China that allowed China to compel Tiktok to manipulate itself, both its data and its access to China and its use of propaganda. The Supreme Court upheld this, it remains a national security threat, and because of that, the United States Congress, the law that is the law of the land, says that ByteDance needs to divest itself. Now, the only thing that would protect the United States and protect our citizens is divestiture.
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Meaning selling–
REP. TURNER: And that means that ByteDance needs to divest itself. Now, Elon Musk has said something very interesting. He said, you know- of course- he’s noted that Twitter, his X, does not have access to China, and that’s sort of an admission by China as to what they’re doing with TikTok. They won’t let Twitter or X in, almost an admission as to what they’re doing. Also, ByteDance have said, well, we won’t sell it, another admission that it’s really not a business. This is a propaganda tool, it is access to data–
MARGARET BRENNAN: But Donald Trump’s not convinced of that, because he issued an executive order saying he’ll figure out a deal.
REP. TURNER: Well, he has said- and we certainly hope that he gets a deal that recognizes the issue of national security, because there–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — But they had more than 200 days to come to that deal–
REP. TURNER: — There is no role to–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — And they’re not selling–
REP. TURNER: — There is- there is- that’s what they’ve said. There is no role in which they can remain active, in which China can have access to this data. Let me give you just two examples. And by the way, I commend to people the- the Supreme Court decision, because it lays out in incredible detail the national security threat. If there- are if the data- if the app is on your phone, they have access to the data on your phone and President Trump–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — outside of that app?
REP. TURNER: — Outside of that app. And even the- the threat is to the access that your phone has to other app and other datas, and that’s why governments have prohibited the app being on government phones, US, UK. And India has banned the- the whole app in its- in its country. And then, of course, there’s the propaganda aspect of how this can be manipulated. Romania just set aside its entire presidential election because of concerns that Tiktok has manipulated data and propaganda with respect to its presidential election. Grave concerns as to what can be done with this, with- with Tiktok.
MARGARET BRENNAN: I want to ask you as well about what’s happening on Capitol Hill. You’ve been on this program many times as chair of the House Intelligence Committee. Speaker Johnson ousted you from that position as chair recently. What can you share about- with us about the conversation you had and the explanation, because you run it in a bipartisan way?
REP. TURNER: Yes, and I think, you know, I think certainly, bipartisanship is incredibly important. And after I had the conversation with the Speaker, you and I- you and I spoke. The- the speaker related, you know, certainly, as we discussed that, you know, an element included concerns from Mar-a-Lago. He’s since walked that back. President Trump’s staff has been in touch with me–
MARGARET BRENNAN: — Well he flatly denied it–
REP. TURNER: — President Trump’s staff has been in touch with me and said that that was not the case. The one thing that he has said is that he wanted to take the committee in a different direction. I’m a little concerned, because his different direction indicates pursuing the elusive Deep State. And my concern is the focus should be on the committee of national security, which is what my focus has been on state actors, non-state actors, those individuals who want to do our country harm. There certainly are bad actors and people that we need to pursue, and we certainly have done so where we find that there are laws that- that -that need to be changed to pursue people, to criminalize bad actions, and we certainly have done that. But there are people every day who get up in the intelligence community who work hard to make certain that China, Russia, North Korea and Iran are prevented from doing Americans harm, and we need to focus on how we can work together to make certain we protect our country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Because protecting the safety of Americans is a fundamental responsibility. But just to button one thing up, when you say the White House and Mar a Lago said that’s not the case. They didn’t ask for you to be replaced.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Correct.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Are you saying the speaker lied?
REP. TURNER: I’m not- I’m not- I’m not going to say that. I have- the Speaker and I have, you know- a good relationship to the Speaker, has at this point appointed me to lead the NATO Parliamentary Assembly on behalf of the House. I remain on the Armed Services Committee. I’m going to remain in- with a strong role in national security, and I’m going to continue to focus on national security and on protecting the country.
MARGARET BRENNAN: The new chair has voted against Ukraine aid. When you say the mission is pursuing the elusive deep state, what does that mean? Weaponizing the committee?
REP. TURNER: I- I- we’ll have to see as to what direction they go. I know that that’s a concern–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Going after the Intelligence community?
REP. TURNER: I know that that’s going to be a concern. We’ll have to see what direction they go. I do know that national security is going to continue to be an area of concern. It certainly was my focus.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Do you- so you are concerned that the oversight in the congressional branch of the intelligence community will not happen and will instead be focused in a politicized way? Is that what I hear you saying?
REP. TURNER: I know that my focus was national security, and that’s going to continue to be my focus in Congress–
MARGARET BRENNAN: –Very quickly–
REP. TURNER: –and we’ll have to- and we’ll have to stay tuned for the rest.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Very diplomatic. Before I let you go, Donald Trump pulled security details from those who face active threats from Iran, including former CIA Director and Secretary of State, Mike Pompeo. Would you ask him to reconsider that?
REP. TURNER: Well, obviously, I’m very concerned for Mike Pompeo.
MARGARET BRENNAN: Alright. Mike Turner, thank you for your time. We’ll be right back.
